Thursday, November 14, 2019

Denial, Handicapping, and Wardrobe Questions

Several members of the G:TB family have sent kids off to college, and a few more of us are on the cusp. My 18 year-old has completed all of her applications, written her essay (it's pretty good - she must have good writing/bullshitting genes), taken her SAT (a second time, and boy did she need it), and visited a decent number of campuses (this is a feature of the college search process, says this college town-loving dad).

In an effort to maintain some rationality about the process, and avoid thinking about how different my house will feel without her buoyant, emotive, large personality, herewith a catalog of the schools to which she's applied, along with some typically Gheorghian commentary (fluffy and largely made up). We'll go in alphabetical order:

College of Charleston
Charleston, SC
Undergraduate Population: 10,488
Tuition, Room & Board: $45,000 (out of state)
Colors: Maroon and White
Odds of Attendance: 25-1

Charleston is the farthest distance away from our home, some 9.5 hours by car. It's also, as you likely know, a phenomenal town - full of history, great restaurants, and a pleasant coastal climate. The College is smack in the middle of the city, just blocks away from an eclectic dining and shopping district. She'll probably get in here, but my sense is that she's only applying because she thinks her folks would like to visit Charleston more often.

Franklin & Marshall College
Lancaster, PA
Undergraduate Population: 2,324
Tuition, Room & Board: $74,600 (private)
Colors: Blue, Light Blue, and White
Odds of Attendance: 25-1

Each year for the past six, she's competed in a dance competition at the convention center smack in the middle of downtown Lancaster. As a result, we've enjoyed the opportunity to get to know a bit about the little town in Amish country. F&M is on the outskirts of Lancaster, just outside the downtown area. It's a beautiful campus, a mix of very old and modern with a ton of green space. There's a surprisingly robust food and beer scene, and more arts than I'd have expected in the middle of Trumpland. I've posted relatively long odds largely because I don't think she'll get in - F&M is highly competitive, and while she's got very good grades and above average SATs, I don't think that'll be enough.

Ithaca College
Ithaca, New York
Undergraduate Population: 5,852
Tuition, Room & Board: $59,600 (private)
Colors: Blue, Gold, and Gray
Odds of Attendance: 20-1

If we'd visited Ithaca as a standalone, I think it'd rank higher on her list. But we visited it on the same weekend we visited Skidmore, and as we'll learn later, she loved that little school. Ithaca's a great college town, with both IC and Cornell within a handful of miles of one another. Ithaca College is on top of a hill with spectacular views of Cayuga Lake. The downside to that location is that the winter winds whip across the relatively open campus, making three months of the year a dismal proposition. While I don't think she'll wind up here, we did have killer Thai soup at a little joint in Ithaca's funky downtown.

James Madison University
Harrisonburg, VA
Undergraduate Population: 20,779
Tuition, Room & Board: $22,600 (in-state)
Colors: Purple and Gold
Odds of Attendance: 10-1

Her mom (JMU '95) isn't being terribly subtle about her preference. My daughter, though, isn't as high on JMU as I think she should be. Her complaint: "All of Loudoun County goes to JMU. I want to meet new people." While I think that's a bit dramatic (one thing she can do is drama), I take her point. She wants to have an opportunity to at least minor in dance in college, and if she's serious about that, JMU is likely her best bet. As one of her two in-state options, there a good deal of financial appeal, too. And I was more impressed than I expected to be when we toured the school - JMU has a ton of support programs in place to help kids succeed.

Skidmore College
Saratoga Springs, NY
Undergraduate Population: 2,680
Tuition, Room & Board: $71,200 (private)
Colors: Green and Yellow
Odds of Attendance: 15-1

There may be cooler college towns than Saratoga Springs, but there aren't many. Town and gown are pretty tightly interwoven. As we drove through the (very) upscale avenue that leads to campus, my daughter expressed intimidation at just how preppy-cute the place is. But once we got on campus proper (led by one of the most exuberant tour guides I've yet seen - dance/drama major, natch), my kid had her head turned. Skidmore has small classes, very student-driven academic tracks, a large emphasis on international study, and a really fucking high price tag. If she gets in, I think she's really going to want to go. A potential silver lining for me and Mom: like F&M, I'm not sure she'll be able to get in. (Bonus Skidmore fact: the school is about 45 minutes from the Teej's hometown. That's gotta be worth something.)

Virginia Commonwealth University
Richmond, VA
Undergraduate Population: 24,051
Tuition, Room & Board: $26,000 (in-state)
Colors: Black and Gold
Odds of Attendance: 4-1

Personally, I think VCU is the best fit for my girl. It's diverse, quirky, just far enough from home, offers dance and academic programs that align with her interests, and is replete with musical and artistic opportunities. Selfishly, it's a pretty good fit for me, too - the price is right (or as right as any college price can be) and I'll have an excuse to get down to Richmond to hang out with FOG:TB Mike Litos and watch the Rams play ball.

It'll be a few months before we start hearing from schools. Time enough to keep working on my daughter's understanding of just how much $70,000 is. We'll keep you posted on our progress. I think I'll look good in Havoc.

34 comments:

Marls said...

No interest in Port Chester University? Who wouldn’t want to be a Whooping Crane?

Gutter is a tool.

TR said...

Visiting so many campuses sounds fun as hell. My wife and I love taking our kids to college campuses, especially as a one-off excursion on vacations. Will be fun to do that w/ my kid in a few years, assuming he’s not locked up in juvie prison.

We have taken the kids to Southern Cal, Arizona State, Maryland, West Point, Lafayette and W&M.

T.J. said...

As part of my reverse parenting endeavors, we did the college tour circuit 8 or 9 years ago now. Was focused mainly on the Virginia schools, and highlighted (lowlighted?) by yours truly getting us lost on the way from the UC to Swem.

And if she's gonna break the bank and go to one of the NY schools, definitely Skidmore over Ithaca imho

Squeaky said...

Give her a VA school incentive, get her a car Sophomore year (needs good grades) if she goes in-state. Cheap 20K car saves you about 150K over NY schools.

Whitney said...

My elder daughter is in the exact same time of her life. Here's what we are looking at:

JMU
Virginia Tech
UVA
Wake Forest
Elon
University of South Carolina
Rollins College
Tulane

W&M, VCU were eliminated because too close to home/family. Plus I have told her how hard W&M is. Plus it's even harder to get into these days.

rob said...

w&m was the first school we toured. the student guide was earnest in the most stereotypical w&m way possible (she was in the cheese club, the ultimate frisbee club, several other student organizations, and she'd just spent her spring break doing field research with a sociology professor, even though she's not a sociology major). it was a gorgeous spring day in the 'burg, so that was a plus. but my kid walked away saying, 'jesus, this place is way too intense.' she read it pretty well. and i don't feel all that bad, because there's no way she's getting in there.

Whitney said...

It's still hard, based on grad school rigor. Maybe harder. I was at some event on campus recently and talking to a biz school student. He said a survey went out to undergrad and full-time grad students. Among the questions was "what one word describes life at W&M?" Landslide victory for "Stress." Don't need my kids facing that when they could go elsewhere and do well and have a well-rounded life's experience.

Whitney said...

If I had to predict, my girl's likelihood rankings from most to least likely:

Tech
JMU
USC
Wake
UVA
Elon
Tulane
Rollins

She says the same thing about her school to UVA that K said about Loudoun County to JMU.

South Carolina is all the rage these days -- and they have some deals for out of staters. My girls loved the tour we took there. I preferred College of Charleston but what does this old man know?

Wake has no deals. $75k+. Yiddit.

rob said...

fog:tb fat guy in a speedo emailed me a while back after i commented on college costs. he works at a fairly elite eastern private school (not ivy league, but close). he reassured me that nobody other than rich international kids pay full retail for tuition, which is helpful. even then, i don't think anything compares to the value for quality available from virginia state schools.

TR said...

When wife and I were in Charleston last summer, we found out applications to Clemson surged since the football team started being dominant.

We also looked at Pepperdine when we were in Cali. That was like being in Fantasyland.

rob said...

same thing happened at mason and vcu in the aftermath of their final four runs. and both schools saw significant increases in donations - both made substantial investments in their campuses as a result. vcu's got some amazing new facilities - residential, athletic, and academic.

Shlara said...

Rob & Whit--you should look at this new ROI calculator that Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce just released: https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/11/14/is-college-worth-it-georgetown-study-measures-return-investment-with-some-surprising-results/?arc404=true&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1

The major headline is everyone's kid should be a pharmacist or maritime engineer

T.J. said...

MARINE BIOLOGIST

T.J. said...

Whit, if she told you she wanted to go to Rollins College, would you call her a "Liar" or say she had a "Low Self Opinion"?

rob said...

i saw that this morning, shlara. looks like skidmore offers the best roi, even though it's her most expensive option. probably because she'd meet a nice rich boy (or girl) and marry into wealth.

Whitney said...

Teejus, Rollins is on the list because that's where my parents went and met. It's beautiful and still had a basket-weaving, water-skiing rep when I was looking there in the 80's. I got in and was told nope, not going there.

Rollins has upped the ante in recent years in quality, but it's still a cushion application that makes my folks feel good.

zman said...

Send your kids to Montclair State so they can see shows at the Wellmont.

Whitney said...

Virginia Tech is top ranked ROI of my daughter's picks, but that may be if you're an engineer, which she ain't.

Mark said...

My stepkid is also doing all this right now. She’s applying to mostly in state schools. Didn’t apply to Florida because she knows she won’t get in. Shit, I wouldn’t get in these days either and I was a damn good student in HS. She’s already been accepted to UNF and FIU. She was all about FSU for a while but I think our recent visit brought home just how far away it is from her home.

She’s looking at FIU and FAU for all the wrong reasons (South Florida). I think UCF would be her best fit bit we’ll see.

rob said...

i was mistaken. jmu offers the best roi of my kidlet's chosen schools (271st of ~4500 evaluated over 20 years). for what it's worth, w&m is 173rd.

zman said...

Our ROI is huge. I don't know many other people who go to an annual gathering of 10-30 idiots they met in college.

Whitney said...

Mark, there ain’t many among us who’d be accepted to our own alma maters these days. Standard fare. Crazy shit.

TR said...

Knicks win over the Mavs tonight was legit exciting. RJ Barrett looks like a future star. Frankie N looks like a big-time defensive stopper, and Dennis Smith Jr has a pulse after all. The Knicks will remain dead to me until Dolan is dead in real life or sells the team.

TR said...

Myles Garrett just lost his mind. Sports media just got the meat for their hot takes tmrw.

Danimal said...

Exciting times for you tour takers. Kudos for going all out, though I'm not surprised. Rob, JMU is much bigger today than when I was there. There are some people I went to high school with that I never saw at all while in THE 'Burg. She won't regret it, it's where VA's smartest coolest kids go.

My oldest nephew went to Tech and then VCU/Med College of VA for pharmacy school. He had an extremely well paying gig right out of school as did most if not all of his classmates.

Scared shitless with the college thing, though have been religious since the day they were born with 529 plans. I really really really hope they find something they like in state. As Mark stated, UF is surprisingly difficult to get into, and even more so depending on the county you live in. Not a much better state than VA, maybe we'll move back by then.

zman said...

Despite what Danimal says, TR and I went on a road trip to JMU (with Major Tom and Seamus McGoat) and somehow or other randomly staggered into a car driven by a woman TR went to high school with. So it can't be that big a school.

TR said...

You could make a movie about that night and folks wouldn’t believe it. 5 people driving in a Nissan Sentra 3 hours through snow, breaking and entering strangers’ houses, a nitrous party, getting a neighbor to make us cookies at 3 AM, etc. And I believe several folks were on LSD, which is a way of saying Brady was in the mix.

And we did the most early 1990’s thing ever: papal elections in a room w/ a black light that was cranking the Judgment Night soundtrack. Talk about albums that don’t hold up...

Best night ever. JMU was infinitely more fun than W&M.

rob said...

tribe men's hoops opens its home account this evening against hampton. w&m's a very surprising 3-0, while the pirates are 2-0. something's gotta give! tribe favored by 6. i don't know anything about anything.

tribe women's hoops also 3-0. dogs and cats, living in sin.

rootsminer said...

My freshman roommate played the shit out of the Judgement Night soundrtack, often accompanying it with his own terrible guitar playing. I wonder if he ever figured out he was playing with the wrong hand.

Mark said...

I partied at Tech and W&M during my time on the Carolina-Virginia border. Never made it to JMU though.

rob said...

partied at tech, "partied" at w&m

Whitney said...

My road trip weekend at Tech senior year made me seriously question my decision where to attend college four years prior.

Mark said...

I went to a party at your former frat house, Rob. Had a damn good time. Met a woman with loose morals.

rob said...

so you were the one