Some might say we've been mercifully spared, while others might say mercilessly denied, another of my Bills/Browns previews because the Bills and Browns finished third and fourth in their divisions, respectively, in 2016 (as opposed to their usual last-place finishes that produce this herpetic matchup). As a result I wrote this Bills/Browns review, to review some of the awful decisions they've made.
My friend Mark is a Dolphins fan and he has a theory about the NFL draft: take a quarterback every year, and if you don't have a good one take the best one you can get in the first round, even if you have to trade up. In his view, amassing piles of draft picks like the Patriots do is great only if you have a good quarterback like the Patriots do. This opinion reflects the harsh reality that it's almost impossible to win a Super Bowl with even an average quarterback. Thus having great depth in the defensive backfield and tremendous special teams specialists does you little good unless you have a real stud under center.
Mark is further of the view that you know if a QB is a bust after two years. If so, move on. He's fine with rolling the dice on a high draft pick and moving on quickly if the player is a bust, so long as this risk is taken at the QB position. In his view, a complete bust is better than winding up with a guy like Ryan Tannehill because it's easy to move on from a bust. If you move on from Ryan Tannehill you could wind up with a total bust or even worse, Jay Cutler, so you're stuck with mediocrity for a number of years until the coach gets fired and a new regime comes in and cleans house.
The Browns highlight the flaws in Mark's theory. I'll explain. Here are the names of people who have thrown ten or more passes in a game for the Browns since 2012:
Cody Kessler
DeShone Kizer
Kevin Hogan
Robert Griffin
Josh McCown
Charlie Whitehurst
Austin Davis
Johnny Manziel
Brian Hoyer
Jason Campbell
Brandon Weeden
Thaddeus Lewis
Colt McCoy
Factory of sadness indeed. Here are the names of some QBs the Browns chose not to draft since 2012:
Deshaun Watson (they traded this pick to Houston, then took DeShone Kizer later)
Carson Wentz (they traded this pick to Philadelphia, then took Cody Kessler later)
Dak Prescott (they took Cody Kessler the round before)
Derek Carr (they took Johnny Manziel the round before)
Jimmy Garoppolo (again, they took Johnny Manziel the round before)
Russell Wilson (they took Brandon Weeden two rounds before)
Kirk Cousins (again, they took Bradon Weeden three rounds before)
To be fair, every team in the league passed on Prescott, Garoppolo, Wilson and Cousins ... and the Browns drafted Weeden, Manziel, Kessler and Kizer so they seem to be following Mark's theory. But the theory works best if the folks making the picks aren't completely asleep at the wheel. But even a blind squirrel can manage to bust a nut once every six drafts, right?
It is well established that I'm an idiot. However, when the Bills traded back from #10 in this year's draft I said "Did the Bills just do something that makes sense? Wow." and then "Although I would've been excited for them to get Deshaun Watson." He was tremendous in college and he's looked great so far this year. It didn't require piercing insight to recognize that Watson had yoodge upside--did you see the National Championship game?
Further, when the R**skins drafted Robert Griffin they also drafted Kirk Cousins. These picks worked out (compared to the situation in Cleveland at least). Would it have killed the Browns to take Weeden AND Cousins or Kessler AND Prescott? It's not like they're using their picks wisely and drafting well at other positions.
Seriously, the Browns suck at drafting all over the field. Here's the top 25 players the Browns drafted since 2012 ranked by career average value:
You know you're bad at drafting when the third-best player you've taken in the last six years is Trent Richardson. Who the hell is Mitchell Schwartz, other than the best Browns draftee of the past six years? I would've assumed he was a CPA, anesthesiologist, maybe a securities litigator. Turns out he's a Kansas City Chief! He went to KC last year and turned in his best career season to date in terms of AV. Typical Browns. Note that eight of these top 25 aren't in the the NFL anymore. That's not good.
All this is to say: the Browns realize that they don't have a QB, they realize that they need a QB, and they're actively drafting QB's, but they're either too dumb or too shook or too cheap or some combination thereof to draft a QB early in the first round. They need to talk to Mark. He hasn't said this, but I think his theory demonstrates the problem with advanced metrics that focus too much on "draft capital." Having all 32 picks in the seventh round might add up to a lot of "draft capital," but none of those players are likely to make your team better. At some point you have to take your balls out of your purse and spend a bunch of capital on a highly rated quaterback.
Buffalo's recent history highlights the potential merits of Mark's theory--you are never going to get a good QB unless you draft one (except for the Saints with Drew Brees, which must still piss off Charger fans). Here's a list of alleged humans that threw 10 or more passes for the Bills since 2012:
Tyrod Taylor
Cardale Jones
EJ Manuel
Kyle Orton
Jeff Tuel
Thaddeus Lewis (overlap!)
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Not exactly a beauty pageant. Unlike Cleveland, the Bills don't seem to feel any need to address this deficiency. Here's who they've drafted at QB since 2012:
Nathan Peterman
Cardale Jones
EJ Manuel
It's as if they're completely ignoring the position. Like the Browns they suck at drafting too:
Ten of their top 25 picks from the last six drafts are out of the league. Awful.
More remarkable, in my view, was their recent move to trade Marcell Dareus to Jacksonville for a sixth round pick. Much is made of the Bills' long-running failure to reach the postseason. What makes this particularly painful is that they haven't completely bottomed out (unlike the Browns) so they're typically good enough to get 6-7 wins and don't draft at the top of the board. Dareus, however, was the third pick of the 2011 draft and he played well for Buffalo. Getting only a sixth round pick for him is painful. You know what's really painful though? This:
Buffalo could've had any of these players on their team today other than Cam Newton or Von Miller. Instead they have a future sixth round pick. How's that for effective use of draft capital?! But I guess it isn't much more frustrating than this:
Buffalo could've stayed at 9, drafted Odell Beckham Jr. (or anyone else on this list except for Blake Bortles), and still had a first round pick in 2015. Instead they traded up for Sammy Watkins who they later traded for EJ Gaines and a 2nd round pick.
The one thing that remains constant is the Browns seem destined to win no more than four games, while the Bills are a near-lock to win six or seven. Which is particularly galling given that the Bills' personnel decisions make it appear that they're tanking. They can't even tank right!
I foresee the Browns having a top-three pick in April, while the Bills will have their own pick (figure somewhere around 14-16) and the Chiefs' (figure somewhere around 28-29). The Bills will trade both picks and Tyrod Taylor to the Browns for their pick, then draft a nose tackle. The Browns will draft QBs with both of the Bills' picks and both will suck. Whoever picks one or two spots after the Bills will get a Pro Bowl caliber QB. Neither team will hire Mark, but maybe they should.
Wednesday, November 01, 2017
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56 comments:
this was a long way to go to write a job recommendation for other mark
Not the most coherent thing I've ever written. I think I meant to say that you need a QB to have a good team, the only way to get one is to draft one, and drafting one isn't easy no matter what your approach ... especially if you're the Browns or the Bills.
But postcount!
Last night, there was a bottle of Jack passed on my front stoop and a joint smoked on my back patio. I was involved in neither act and went to bed after nursing only two beers. Tremendous and unexpected self-control from this guy ahead of what’s probably a 14-hr work day.
Drew’s post is neat, but i think we all knew both teams were poop. And if you’re a Browns fan, how pissed are you on a scale of 1-10 that you couldn’t get McCarron? A 3?
alternative post theory: excellent scaffolding erected in service of getting the word 'herpetic' into print.
and postcount! is always in style.
I was involved in the Jack passing incident. I could see the longing in TR's eyes as we slugged from the bottle, and he kept murmuring "I have a 15 hour workday tomorrow. I have a 15 hour work day tomorrow." to keep himself from joining in.
Zman making a really strong push for comeback poster of the year with back-to-back, high quality entries. Almost inspiring.
today's pro tip - keep hands and fingers away from eyes if you are in the middle of eating a bag of jalapeno flavored chips.
been there, danimal, only replace 'eating a bag of...chips' with 'cutting jalapenos'. the worst.
also among the worst, the vaguely oily ceo of papa john's is complaining that sales are down as a result of the nfl protests. in other news, i'm really glad i have lots of excellent local options for ordering pizza.
If only someone had dedicated a really long sentence to a story much like that jalapeno eye one.
Our 21 October posts tied us for the most in 2017. It lost out on a per-day postcount title because April has only 30 days, as you all know from the little poem.
November likely will fall back a tad because it's 30 days with a long holiday, but let's keep momentum going.
Could Papa John's sales be down because they sell bad pizza?
The Papa John's guy may be a tool of the jock sniffing kind, but a producer of bad pizza? I say no.
i don't think papa john's is terrible pizza; there are several chain pies that are much worse, but at least where i live, there are at least five local joints who make a much tastier pie with better crust. and i choose to give them my business.
I realize everyone hates it when Yankee jackasses opine on pizza but I'm going to do it anyway. You can't compare Papa John's or Domino's or Little Caesar's or Pizza Hut or any other chain to the pizza you get at a mom-and-pop pizzeria in the NY/NJ/CT area. It isn't even the same foodstuff. Papa John's may be a good chain pizzeria, but being a good chain pizzeria is like being a tall midget.
in 2017, the tri-state area doesn't have a monopoly on killer pizza, but i take your overall point
the only way to make it through a 15 hour workday is with a bit of a hangover.
after reading this, i'm wondering if drafting is more luck than anything-- there was some arbitrage stuff about this in a michael lewis book book in regards to basketball and it made sense, but football players are pretty well documented physically. perhaps it's just a crapshoot?
holy shit. rob said he doesn't think papa john's is terrible pizza? i take back all my comments. that's a trumpian statement.
danimal also thinks papa john's knows how to make pizza? i can't believe i hang out here.
also, i shouldn't read the comments backwards.
one of the things i love about dave is his sense of proportionality
There's never been a bad slice of pizza cooked in the tri-state area?
Sweeping generalizations abound.
Not even taking into account there are vastly different styles of pizza on the planet.
You people are smarter than this.
You can get a bad slice around here but you have to work hard to do it. And you can get good slices outside of this area--Sal's in Williamsburg makes damn fine pizza, as does Woody's in Boston and the Italian Store in Arlington. But those three places are an anomoly in their respective areas while they are the norm around here. And you can't compare any pizza of that caliber to the stuff you get at Papa John's.
Sorry to get all serious about pizza.
I think Dave is right (for once). Drafting involves a not insignificant amount of luck. Seattle's success is due in large part to dumb luck, drafting guys like Russell Wilson, Kam Chancellor, and Richard Sherman in the later rounds. If anyone knew how good they would be they would've been first round picks.
franchise/delivery type pizza vs what you speak of....you win. Papa johns vs other like made pizzas....papa johns is da best!
You guys watching baseball? Me neither.
14+ hr day just ended. Another 12-hr day tmrw. Then we get evicted for five days so our floors get done. We are trying to tell our kids we're going on vacation...to a hotel w/ a kitchenette in Morristown, NJ.
No scotch/beer/wine at home either. May need to pour a hump day ouzo. Which I'll 100% regret.
I went to Park City w/ friend of G:TB Derek B about 8-9 years ago. We struck up a conversation w/ our waiter one night, who also worked on the mountain as an expert-level instructor/guide. He had nightmare stories to tell about the Papa John's guy - huge dick, condescending, bad tipper. The waiter guy seemed totally normal. I've given Mr. Papa (Mr. John) the stink-eye thru my telly ever since.
Papa John’s pizza is the worst. It’s offensive to me as an Italian that they call that stuff pizza
ledo's is the worst. little caesar's is close to the worst. pizza hut is a greasy disaster with gross crust. domino's tastes like cleaning fluid. papa john's is plain and lacking any real character, but it's not the worst.
There are so many northeastern folks who live down here that finding good mom and pop pizza is incredibly easy. I haven’t had pizza from one of the major chains in years. The chain stuff is all crap and your preference for one over the other isn’t a great test of anything.
I never really dug Papa John’s in my younger (drunker) delivery pizza days. Though they had good cheese sticks if you soaked it in garlic butter sauce.
the great gtb pizza argument of 2017 is gonna be a chapter in the book.
hello, gheorghies. i love series-winning celebrations.
love the garlic sauce. seriously good stuff. sausage and onion from papa john's - pretty good! buncha pizza elitists.
I'm your huckleberry. I'll eat some Papa John's.
Not with huckleberry on it or anything.
Now, we have some damn fine pizza in town (like most places, as Rob implied) at a half-dozen standalone joints, so Papa almost never gets the nod. But I won't pretend it's inedible.
9 out of 10 it's Napoli's, owned by a pal and New York transplant. 1 out of 10, usually at a bday party that is hosted by someone other than me it's....better ingredients. better pizza. papa john's.
They Might Be Giants touring in 2018. Rob, what say ye? Jan 17 in Cville or Apr 14 in DC.
People should get beat up for statin' their beliefs.
Whit, TMBG do a free show at Fox Woods casino every year. You should venture up here for it one year.
i'm going to engage in some semi-hypocritical behavior tomorrow; i need to feed 30 middle school boys at our end of the year soccer celebration and my only economic recourse is to order papa johns. i am sure they will eat it, and i might even try a slice.
Bizzaro pizza sucks. Those guys are dicks.
How is it possible that in New Brunswick, NJ there is not a local pizza place that you can order from just as cheaply?
Those tax cuts ain’t gonna do shit for me. The change to SALT deductibility is basically life telling me to leave NJ.
That, and terrorists’ insistence on killing New Yorkers.
Hey fuhgettaboutit Mahlin, you gonna order a dozen pies, you're going to pay for that big time at Nino's, cha ching, you hear me?
If you call a mom-and-pop in Jersey and say "Ayo, I got 30 hungry 10-year-olds ovah he-yah. We're dooin ah annyull end-uh-duh yeah celebration. I need 12 pies, 20 orduhs uh garlic knots and a tray uh wings. I'll pay cash. Can you cut me a rate?" If he says no you reply "Fug you, your grandma pies ah fugazi anyway. I'll bring my bizniz ovah tuh Nicky's." Then tell Nicky "Ayo, dat batchagaloop ovah at Cafe Villa woodn't cut me a rate on a big ordah for a middle school sahcah team party. Dat fuggin animale. Can you take care of me ovah he-yah? I'll pay cash." Then Nicky will say "Done. Wuhdja need?"
I wonder who wrote Sam Clovis' resignation letter--I'm pretty sure it wasn't Sam Clovis. Sanders? Miller? Conway? DJT himself?
just arrived at the happiest place on earth, so my bloggeration may be curtailed for the next serveral days. carry on without me, boys and girls.
You’re at the Brass Ass strip club in Kentucky, across the river from Cincinnati!?
I love Zman's Jersey local's guide to getting decent pies at a fair price!
i don't give a shit about the nfl, but the deshaun watson news just sucks.
Yep, that sucks for Houston.
new Annoyance: homecoming referred to as “hoco”
Agree with you, Danimal. We can undermine such things if we feel like it, though. Go on Urban Dictionary and add some graphic alternate meaning for "hoco," perhaps something to do with people of free-wheelin' sexuality and yesterday's coffee. Then we start spreading the word, please don't say "hoco" around the kids because it has this street meaning that's filthy. Point them to the website. It goes viral. They'll quit the game.
The power of the phrase “graphic alternate meaning” starts and ends with the definition of Santorum. Sometimes I remember when I used to love America.
hi, gheorghies!
That's how it's done, Dave.
Need some Friday filler, Marls.
I’m cripplingly hung over in Atlanta, but I’ll see what I can do.
How did I not know Mr. Robot was back? I just discovered this last night.
Wife is out of town for weekend and left me with the kids. I’ve also got a practice and two soccer games to coach. Mr. Robot shall be my relief.
On my way to work I saw two women out for a run, one about my age and the other about 10-15 years older. The older one clearly and unambiguously lost control of her bowels earlier in her run and defecated a large volume of stool into her running shorts and down her left leg. She was in blatant discomfort and I assume she was still running so that she could get out of the public eye and clean up as soon as possible.
I hope you all have a better Friday than this runner.
I love Mr. Robot but I'm still trying to finish Narcos. Mr. Robot is next on the docket. Then Stranger Things. Because you all care about my TV consumption.
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