Sporting debate is both pointless and vital, mostly unanswerable yet critical for engagement. Results temper some discussion because they provide actual winners and losers and accompanying statistics, rather than aesthetic taffy pulls related to topics such as beauty, music and Scotch whisky. But sports also launch conversations among those who are invested, psychically if not financially, about legacy and history and comparison.
If sports weren’t consuming to so many, people might devote their energies to improving themselves and society, and where’s the jollies in that?
Debates about Greatest This and Best That frequently involve baseball, but other sports figure in the mix. Which brings us to today’s chew toy: LeBron James. James and his band of Angelenos are in the Western Conference finals as he pursues his fifth championship. [We posted about a version of this narrative more than a decade ago.]
Did someone mention my pal LeBron? |
The case for Jordan over LeBron usually comes down to championships and Jordan’s killer instinct. Jordan went to six finals and won six rings. LeBron has been to 10 finals and won four titles. Though if rings are the criteria, then Bill Russell should be the GOAT, or at least in the discussion. I’d also point out that if the Miami Heat don’t grab a late offensive rebound and subsequently Ray Allen doesn’t hit an immense 3-pointer in Game 6 of the 2013 Finals versus the Spurs, or if Draymond Green wasn’t suspended for Game 5 of the 2016 Finals with the Warriors up 3-1, LeBron likely has two fewer championships and *still* should be in the conversation.
For what it’s worth (negligible), I think the debate should include Jordan, LeBron, Kareem and Russell. Compelling cases could be made for all four, and I wouldn’t argue with any of them.
Pushback against LeBron as GOAT also carries a whiff of nostalgia that’s most commonly found in regards to baseball. For example, no one credibly argues that Jesse Owens was faster than Usain Bolt, that Sammy Baugh was better than Aaron Rodgers, that Olga Korbut was superior to Simone Biles, that Mark Spitz was more accomplished than Michael Phelps, that Maurice Richard was a greater talent than Sidney Crosby, that George Best was a more gifted footballer than Leo Messi.
Yet if one were to suggest that, say, Mookie Betts is better than Stan Musial, or that Max Scherzer is better than Lefty Grove or Bob Feller, the Guardians of Baseball descend on that notion with the weight of a dozen planets and summarily dismiss it as absurd, bolstered by favorable numbers and the sparkle of fairy dust. We’re supposed to believe that athletic evolution applies to every sport *except* baseball and that Mike Trout cannot possibly be better than Ruth and Mays. A questionable construct, to say the least.
There’s a bit of that with Jordan and LeBron, though Jordan’s career is just recent enough that a sizeable chunk of the populace saw and grew up with it and are willing to champion it over the current wave.
Not saying they’re wrong, only that the games and their participants change and evolve. Enjoy and marvel at them all, whenever they compete. Rank them if you must, you grouchy bastards, and if your criteria is cold statistics or the tug of your heart or some combination thereof, well, good luck and Godspeed.
Let a thousand arguments bloom.
15 comments:
I agree that it's silly, if fun, to argue over this type of stuff. However, if we're talking about the totality of someone's career, don't forget that Kareem's career includes playing in three high school national championships and won two; three NCAA championships, three Final Four MOPs, three NCAA player of the year awards; and doing a ton of humanitarian stuff off the court besides winning six NBA titles, two finals MVPs, six NBA MVPs, nineteen All-Star appearances, and retiring with more points and blocks than anyone ever.
bomani and fox talked about kareem in yesterday's podcast in the context of nikola jokic's historical upside. they made the point that kareem entered the league as its best player and stayed there for the next 12 years. dude was one of one.
Let us not forget… Like Jim Brown, Kareem was a gifted thespian. His star turn as Roger Murdock was one for the ages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dixwXcrK7ZY
No mention of Wilt Chamberlain? For shame.
While we’re talking Kareem- don’t forget that when he was ineligible to play as a freshman, he and his teammates smashed the UCLA varsity team (eventual national champions) in an intrasquad scrimmage.
Most overlooked player of all time. The HBO doc on him is worth your time.
Fair point, Tim. Thought of Chamberlain for a moment, then didn't include him. He deserves to be in the discussion, as well.
I’m not a big golf guy but that hole in one by Michael Block is the stuff of legends.
Also, Dave is an embarrassingly better writer than I could ever hope to be. I’m a Jordan guy (obviously) but I also like to separate centers vs all court players (short guy typing over here).
So… as for best all court players, I’ll take Jordan. My favorite? Magic.
Magic ain’t a bad choice. Rob grew up rooting against the Lakers, but I’d bet that at this point he sees something gheorghey in that guy’s play.
he’s no bird
Won a neat little $66 on a $3 bet on this weekend’s golf tourney. Would that I could do that with any consistency, my betting wouldn’t be the dreck that it is.
I just did my personal best ribs, so I'm ending the weekend on a high note.
trivia squad finished one point out of a tie for second out of 20 teams in the grand championships this evening. left it all on the field. gonna spend the offseason working on nascar and obscure movie knowledge and come back ready to make another run.
just a character-besmirching beatdown of a capitulation by the celtics. gonna be hard to shake this one off.
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